Welcome to my Pi Network review.
Is this another Crypto Currency Ponzi scheme?
Is this the next best thing?
There are so many questions that come with sites that involve anything from the Crypto world and that’s just how it is.
The Bitcoin hype has given everyone so much excitement, anxiety, and most especially heartache.
So if you are wondering if this is something you should invest your time and hard-earned money in, you have come to the right place.
This Pi Network review will not only show you the ins and outs of how everything works but also help you make a wiser decision.
I am personally not a fan of hype, so don’t expect me to hype this thing like it’s the best thing since sliced bread.
So before you go even joining the person who introduced this to you, let me show you what you will be getting yourself into.
Pi Network Review – Product Overview
Name: Pi Network
Website: www.minepi.com
Owner: Unknown
Price: Free
Overall Rating: 1./5 stars
After almost at least 6 months after its launch, the Pi Network does not seem to have done anything at all.
Although free to join, there is still no one making money and all that seems to be going on is a bunch of “mining”.
I did have this rated at 2.5/5 stars but I think 6 months is enough time to make things happen. Things look cool and all but there are better things that you can be doing with your time than mining on something that isn’t even allowing you to make any money.
So for those of you bombarding others with your personal affiliate link, save it for a better program that at least pays you for your efforts.
What Exactly is the PI Network?
“Developed by Stanford PHDs, Pi is the first and only digital currency that you can mine on your phone by leveraging your existing social connections.”
The company has created their very own digital currency but there is no mention of who owns or runs anything.
So who those Stanford PHDs are is currently just hype without any proof.
What I can tell you is that the site is ran strictly through its affiliate program, in which affiliates are compensated for getting others to join.
That seemed to be the case but no one is making any money with the Pi Network.
Period.
The Product/Service
There is no product but the company does offer a service.
By downloading the Pi Network app, you can mine crypto currency on your phone, without draining its battery.
That’s what it claims to be/do but it looks nothing more than a recruiting based program that relies completely on its members.
Recruiting is all that is happening and everyone and their mothers are still sharing their affiliate link, even if they aren’t making any money.
Definitely not something I would recommend as there are way more opportunities out there that you can focus your time on.
How it Works
Pi Network has absolutely no value and is trying to pull off what Bitcoin did back in 2008.
At least that’s what they’re expecting.
Get some hype going, get millions of people to join, all in hopes that the value of Pi will grow to a point that everyone is making money.
Being that it is completely free to join, the money made and value of Pi is all dependent on the volume of members that come into the company and what is spent.
By spending and sharing, using the Pi Network app, the value should increase over time as long as newer members continue to join.
Many companies have made an attempt at this but all we got were Alt coins that are definitely not doing as good as they used to.
Pi Network does not seem to be doing any better with the fact that no actual money is involved.
Will it Work?
There is no telling where this whole idea is headed but of course we always hope that it does great.
I am no psychic but I do see this doing about the same type of numbers that every other Crypto Currency project has done.
It will go up to a certain point but eventually go down once the hype is gone.
Being that it is completely free to join, I don’t see the harm in signing up and seeing where everything goes but again, that does require time.
The good news is that I have not seen any recent wallet type crypto currency programs and I know all the failed crypto marketers are looking for something to join.
Be that source and you can possibly earn some money in return.
Pros & Cons
Pros
- Very new company
- Free to join
- Has potential
Cons
- No real money involved
- Doesn’t seem to be moving anywhere
- Could be another flop
There is not much information for me to give a real opinion on things just yet, but this is currently what I find to be good and bad of the Pi Network.
So is Pi Network a Scam?
Pi Network is really nothing more than a network marketing gig at the moment.
There is no one that will take your money and only time will tell where everything goes.
It as been quite some time now and I’m about tired of “mining”.
From what I once did daily has now stopped.
I don’t mine anything and I have no interest in it either.
Unless you want to wait around for a miracle, I do not recommend joining the Pi Network
My Recommendation
I don’t see the harm in creating a free Pi Network account and I do recommend you do so anyways.
However, I do not think you should sit and wait around for anything because there are many other things you can do with your time.
With all the Crypto Currency peeps that relied on the many Ponzi schemes to make money, you can bet that they are looking for the latest and greatest program to join.
Be upfront with the people you are going to promote the app too and I’m sure they wouldn’t mind joining you.
Now if you are looking for a real way to make money online, you might want to start today.
You can always do some flipping with Ticket Flipping Hub but it does require a nice investment on your part.
It does pay faster than most but it also requires you to invest a good amount of money as well.
For those of you who have no money to your name but still want to make something, Swagbucks is your best bet.
It’s free to join and will pay you for doing simple tasks.
If you are looking to start a blog that’s great too.
There is no better way to make money than through a simple website and a topic of your choice.
That concludes this Pi Network review, so have a great day and don’t forget to tip your waiter.
Summary
Pi Network is a crypto currency mining app. As of now, there is no actual monetary value but you can bet that there will be a lot of people joining this as it is completely free to join. That is not a good or bad thing but rather one that is designed to get people joining like crazy. It’s been about a year now and there is still no real money involved. I wouldn’t waste my time on this like I have and get to learning a real way to make money online. Learn More Here
Well I WAS in all support of PI miner! been mining well over a year now…. But NOW lately!!!!!!! SCAM!!!
1st my only question to support and chats and their Facebook page was – I have to change phones everything going 5 g. l also changed my provider and they could NOT port my number!!!!!! so How can I change my phone number??????? I sit here new phone an number with ZERO replies from support, chats, also FB page.. oh They now delete all my posts on their FB page asking for help and saying there is no support?????? So with that WE MINE AND IF ANYTHING HAPPENS PERIOD I GUESS YOU LOOSE ALL YOUR PI MINED! or is that the plan????????????? SCAM~~~~~~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
pi İnvitation Code : kdg009
with a high Security circle
I’m always active
I’d like to see an updated blog from you regarding any new thoughts on Pi. They are testing digital wallets near the end of this month and have started to move towards phase three. I have a feeling that instead of making people buy what they have “earned” over time, they may simply cut off those people that have given up on Pi and mining. Honestly that’s what I would do if I ran it…..But who knows. I mean, what’s the real scam here…using less than five seconds to press a digital button? Handing over your phone number? (we all get spam calls so nothing new there). I have not seen any concrete promises of money but, going in with the idea that any value of the crypto may or may not come to fruition, I simply can’t chalk that up to being a scam given most people spend more time with the games on their phone. People thought Bitcoin was a scam as well and here we are. Dogecoin was a meme/joke and now its being taken seriously and can be purchased at over 1800 ATMs nationally. Who would have thought right!?
I think we are just at a point in the digital age where society is becoming more and more impatient and want rapid results. Just press the button and give it time. I’m still in to see where this goes as we literally have nothing to lose.
For those looking to join my Pi team, reference code: cherb32
It looks like a pyramid scheme too.
Pi network cryptocurrence I mine form my mobile
It do not use mobile power
It is free
only thing that you can not trade
hey guys and gals
if you want to join pi network use this referral code (Omidkkkkkkkkkkk) because I made a group of people who are commited to be active in the app and thats an important part of the project which will be useful for you in future.
dont forget to type Omidkkkkkkkkkkk as your referral code.
minepi.com/Omidkkkkkkkkkkk
So it’s a scam, can’t withdraw either 🤬, they stored our phone number too… What for?!
I think this is just for fun or we are just work for them without getting paid 😂
I wouldn’t mine PI on my main-phone, nonetheless I would mine it on a spare-phone. There are several reasons but the main reason is that I’ve been in this crypto game since 2016. I’ve seen free- open-source projects like Raiblocks (Nano) explode from $0.007 to $31 in 2017, $0.0018 to $0.64 in 2017.
Pi is running on it’s own chain, so it isn’t a erc-20 side-chain ”testnet” minted of thin air shitcoin.
It’s consensus model is similar to NEO’s, DPOS (delegated proof of stake)… there is legit amount of work put into this chain. To compare it with a erc-20 template IOU testnet token is ridiculous. I know what a erc-20 scam looks like… PI isn’t a scam to my knowledge, it’s a legit chain, this doesn’t imply that the project will explode in price valuation.
Just wanted to say that PI is already trading at $0.20 (per pi) as a derative/IOU…. IOU = I owe you – meaning buy them now at $0.20 and you PI once it becomes tradeable on secondary markets.
How much volume can be attributed to market-manipulation like wash-trading, ramping, spoofing is unknown. I wouldn’t care, this coin is free. Zero downside risk in my opinion.
Hi John.
I have this Android app called Birdchain and among other things I keep receiving Minepi ads with ref links. So I went to DuckDuckGo search engine and typed “minepi scam” to check what the Internet has to say about this project. I found your website and read your review. I was sceptical before and now I am even more. I also went to Trustpilot a while ago, and it’s ridiculous how many 5* reviews this project has, of course all with ref links. 🙂
So yeah, for the time being I’ll STAY AWAY from Pi Network.
Hello.
We welcome anyone.
We are a big group of people and most of us are mining with a rate of 15 pi/h.
Join our team ,using the code : “kingami”
In my opinion, **Pi Network** is not a scam and far from it. The developers are who they claim they are, the App does what it says it does, the idea of how it might work coincides with mathematical and currency concepts.
I am sending you 1π! Pi is a new digital currency developed by Stanford PhDs, with over 3.5 million members worldwide. To claim your Pi, follow this link Pi Network (https://minepi.com/mkochey96) and use my username (mkochey96) as your invitation code.
To join pi network, use reference “maximcyc”
Hi John, it is a shame that you do not understand the concept of the Pi Network and therefore, you shouldn’t be telling people to beware as it cost nothing to find out themselves. The fact is that the Pi network is still in Beta stage and in the 1st year, has over 3.5 million members. Everyone knows there’s no value at this stage. There are three steps to the Pi earning rate for free. You have the choice of getting involved or just being a member – there is no obligation or requirement for anything more than logging on each day! This is a 2nd opportunity that costs nothing to join and earn AND; just like Bitcoin $0 to $15k in 10 years – what will Pi be worth in 10 years – no-one knows but I want to be part of this revolutionary system. I have 600 coins so far which COULD be worth nothing or Millions to my children and grandchildren with no downside! Go to http://www.minepi.com and read the information. Then, if you would like to join Pi, use “PhilBee” as your invitation code and start earning crypto coins for your family’s future. Philip Northam Proud Pi Member earning free coins.
It’s a shame John but can you guys please use “PhilBee” if you want to join? Get out of here with your nonsense Philip. I know enough about Pi, I’m an actual member, and have been for over a year now. Regardless of what I know does not mean that we will be making a single penny from this. Myself and everyone else I know have stopped “mining” and that’s because we really don’t know where this is going. Does all that mining mean I’m going to be rich 10 years from now? Money does not come from the sky Philip and you just have to think realistic and not wishing that some kind of money lands on your lap. And for some weird reason some actual money does come to light, then hey, I’ll be richer than you because I got in way before you did. Don’t question my intelligence Phillip, I’ve been in this business for almost a decade and I’ve followed many programs in my lifetime. I do great With crypto currency in Mirror Trading International, I do affiliate marketing with my blogs, and I have tried many other methods in the time I’ve been online. So trust me Philip, I know what I’m doing and what I’m saying.
hi
What is pi network really ?
https://dolari.ir/3420
Hello.
We are a big group of people and most of us are mining with a rate of 10 pi/h.
Join our team ,using the code : “told”
We welcome anyone.
Hey Told…is there any real currency being used here?
Ah, an armchair know-it-all. Go you!
Ummmm…who you talking to Kristy?
they are starting the in app transfers. some of the members have been in their KYC (know your customer) and now in have in app transfer.
by the way what can you say about this site
https://ecoinofficial.org/ecoins with 370k members in 10 days and counting.
it has an in app transfer already and you can widraw anytime
That site seems to be doing the same exact thing Pi Network is doing. Get lots of people to join and then hit them with some kind of way to pay. Ecaoin says it best “Our strategy is to acquire billions of users”. They are trying to get lots of people in (free of course) in hopes that they will be the early bird and then hit them with some kind of way to get money from them. I wouldn’t do it if I were you Romel.
Got to be a scam. They are soliciting bitcoin on their Facebook page now. I have a screen shot.
Ahhhh, get millions to join for free and then market something else…that might just be it. Can you share that screenshot Johnny?
Yes, Johnny, please share that screen. I am in the same boat as John. I have been mining now for over 7 months but not holding my breath. The more I asked questions and they do not answer, the more skeptical I become. I have to agree with you John, this is looking more and more like a scam to get people to join, and then hit us with some kind of buying. Hoping that you don’t want to lose your Pis, which if it is not going to be beneficial then I will be more than happy to lose them all.
PS: Have to say, if on the contrary, it ends up working, then I will be making a hefty price tag, lol! Benefits of mining for so long. Have 7Gs and counting.
Me too Carlos! lol. I have stopped mining a while ago but I have been with Pi for over a year now. Mining for free is a lot of work! lol. But, I do hope that something good comes out of this and not some sales pitch to the next best Ponzi scheme. Fingers crossed…
Pi is interesting and will be surprising crypto-world in near future, the beauty is that it engaged poineers, by chat rooms , moderation etc. plus the selected group who are able to use in-app transfer , it encourage others, Pi birthday ( March 14 ) is approaching and we believe some new things like KYC will be opened for members and future road-map will be shared, As the developer has slogan that Pi will be common people money , so by proper marketing and advertising its adoption by mass will really surprise all others, we are not going to spend money , not buying expensive hardware just to download and click the button in 24 hours.
So when will real money be used Irshad?
Sory John but you are acting like some of those people who just joined the Pi Network … “when can I exchange Pi to other currency”, “how much is Pi worth”, “is this a scam”
If you really had this app for 6 months you would know the answer all the questions you are asking, and since you published this article on February 14, 2020 you really should know a lot more.
I joined 2 months ago and know who is behind the project (https://minepi.com/team, https://hci.stanford.edu/nicolas/), what was the value Pi reached in the test phase (4,8$ / Pi by the way)
I’m sorry to tell you but your article seems to be written by an amateur.
Here’s a more relevant article – https://sgclassicalguitar.xyz/minepi-pi-network-cryptocurrency-mining-scam-review/
Oh Adrien, I have had the app for over a year now so please stop acting like you know what you’re talking about. The February 14th date is when I updated this post. Did you make any money? That’s the question we ALL want answers to not who runs the show or what the “value” is. So please amateur, answer that ONE question and not the questions that everyone knows the answers to. Please share your know it all answer to that ONE question Adrian as I’m not here to wait a whole year to see what will happen. I’m not that stupid, buddy.
To join pi network, use reference “tornado”
We are a big group of people. Most are farming with a rate of 5 per hour.
To join our group use the code: “told” . We welcome anyone to our chat
What everyone wants to know Dim is when in the world will REAL money get involved? Are we going to mine like it is some kind of game? I’m sure everyone is starting to get tired of waiting around as it’s been quite a while since Pi Network launched. Do you know what is going on? Is there something to look forward to or is Pi Network going to continue to be a mining game of some sort?
Simple, easy Pi Network mining 🙂
I have never dabbled in cryptocurrencies before but I have a good positive feeling about Pi
They don’t ask for money. They don’t want personal information. A simpleton like me can mine in the background even with the app turned off. And you gain coins faster by having people join your circle. I just love the idea of currency that’s not manipulated by anyone. Its owned by the users.
LOL at all the know-it-betters, who is telling you PI is a scam. Here is my answer.
Before the bitcoin hype in 2017, we were collecting free coins left and right. Some of these coins became famous and you guys were buying our bags.
2015 Free RaiBlocks(Nano) $0.007 to $31 in 2017.
2014 Free Stellar Lumens $0.0018 to $0.64 in 2017.
Read my blog.
https://greater-fools.com/2019/12/23/how-to-make-money-without-money/
Other then with BTC it is Pi Network that controls your account. They can delete it at their sole discretion. Actually your account is at risk right now because they have to deal with lots of fake account which need to be deleted. It can be any account, also yours.
Thanks for sharing such valuable information Joe. But what about the whole earning part of Pi? Are we just going to keep mining all day or is something actually going to happen?
John, I suggest you to read the FAQ and the project’s white paper. Everything you need to know is covered there.
And my advice to all Pioneers: Verify your account with your phone number, not only with FB, and make sure to have enough real people pointing at you via security circles. This way you run less risk that your account will be wrongly deleted.
Nothing to lose here but everything to gain. Google and FB already have data tracking on you. I bet many wish they had a thousand bitcoin when they started and were easy to mine. Worth pennies back then. Now look at the price. Nothing ventured nothing gained I say. Crypto is the future. Bankers hate it. They have lots of money to pay bloggers and advertisers to try and quell it. Not going to happen. The people in mass are seeing the light.
Have a good life everyone!
I’m sure that’s the way a lot of people feel Mike but what kind of current benefits/earnings have you experienced as a member? have you paid any money? Recruiting? Can you give us some insight on what you have gained or why you feel that this is probably the best things since sliced bread.
how to spend it?
I think is an interesting project, at early stage, but we´ll see in phase 2 (testnet) and phase 3 (mainnet) where it is going. For now I´m mining and having some “pi” just in case. The idea is really funny and interesting, to have more and more people knowing the blockchain concept. And the blockchain will be a fork of Stellar, one of the 10 more valuables cryptos, so…let´s see!
I’ve been using Pi Network app for quit some time now. About a few weeks after launch and have accrued quite some members to join up and lots of Pi coins now. Though currently there is no monetary value of the coin but I see it has potential along with many other uses for the coin. When peer to peer exchange comes out and their marketplace opens, I think then it will have a lot of value. But currently as the trend of the coin continue to rise up with new users everyday, you can take advantage of their chat system to promote other things to your earning team.
Join Pi Network, minepi.com/cleoarc, and start your new potential moneymaking journey (like Bitcoin started from $0 in 2008). 1st cryptocurrency you can mine from your smartphone. No investment to join.
has anyone found any answers as to what type of data they’re extracting from users? (aside from name/phone number for install)
Pi was not the first mobile mining. I’m pretty tired of people throwing this around. People need to do their homework as Electroneum (ETN) have been doing this since late 2017. Everything this is doing has already been done by ETN.
Elecronium has been on since 2007? And yet even a thousand eleactronium tokens is not worth up to $10 that’s pathetic.
Does Mine “pi” means Personal Information?
Already joined but still worried about security stuff.
Who knows where it will take us, you never know. Maybe you kicking yourself otherwise.
As pi network is still in beta you need an invitation.
ETN does not have a real mobile miner.
UPLEXA has
https://link.medium.com/UjyC0rhJaZ
For me – at this moment – it does just look like some sort of profiling App that collects User data and could possibly sell them to other companies. ? That’s it, they make some money and you get nothing. They want you to use your real names, constantly check back, so they can mark your account as active for possible interests of the database and in the best case they got your E-Mail, telephone number and If you were dumb enough the password you are using on multiple Apps and Accounts so buyers gain access to many of your stuff.
Be careful and stay safe… I’m trying it out right now but I do see many harm that could hit lots of Users if they are not carefully. So this should always be in your mind participating stuff like this.
Pi can be downloaded here: https://www.minepi.com/phone
Be sure to use the invite code “phone” as it’s still in beta.
Preface
As the world becomes increasingly digital, cryptocurrency is a next natural step in the evolution of money. Pi is the first digital currency for everyday people, representing a major step forward in the adoption of cryptocurrency worldwide.
Our Mission: Build a cryptocurrency and smart contracts platform secured and operated by everyday people.
Our Vision: Build the world’s most inclusive peer-to-peer marketplace, fueled by Pi, the world’s most widely used cryptocurrency
DISCLAIMER for more advanced readers: Because Pi’s mission is to be inclusive as possible, we’re going to take this opportunity to introduce our blockchain newbies to the rabbit hole Smiley
Roadmap / Deployment plan
Phase 1 – Design, Distribution, Trust Graph Bootstrap.
The Pi server is operating as a faucet emulating the behavior of the decentralized system as it will function once its live. During this phase improvements in the user experience and behavior are possible and relatively easy to make compared to the stable phase of the main net. All minting of coins to users will be migrated to the live net once it launches. In other words, the livenet will pre-mint in its genesis block all account holder balances generated during Phase 1, and continue operating just like the current system but fully decentralized. Pi is not listed on exchanges during this phase and it is impossible to “buy” Pi with any other currency.
Phase 2 – Testnet
Before we launch the main net, the Node software will be deployed on a test net. The test net will use the same exact trust graph as the main net but on a testing Pi coin. Pi core team will host several nodes on the test net, but will encourage more Pioneers to start their own nodes on the testnet. In fact, in order for any node to join the main net, they are advised to begin on the testnet. The test net will be run in parallel to the Pi emulator in phase one, and periodically, e.g. daily, the results from both systems will be compared to catch the gaps and misses of the test net, which will allow Pi developers to propose and implement fixes. After a thorough concurrent run of both systems, testnet will reach a state where its results consistently match the emulator’s. At that time when the community feels its ready, Pi will migrate to the next phase.
Phase 3 – Mainnet
When the community feels the software is ready for production, and it has been thoroughly tested on the testnet, the official mainnet of the Pi network will be launched. An important detail is that, in the transition into the mainnet, only accounts validated to belong to distinct real individuals will be honored. After this point, the faucet and Pi network emulator of Phase 1 will be shut down and the system will continue on its own forever. Future updates to the protocol will be contributed by the Pi developer community and Pi’s core team, and will be proposed by the committee. Their implementation and deployment will depend on nodes updating the mining software just like any other blockchains. No central authority will be controlling the currency and it will be fully decentralized. Balances of fake users or duplicate users will be discarded. This is the phase when Pi can be connected to exchanges and be exchanged for other currencies.
Pi – Token Supply
Token Emission Policy
Total Max Supply = M + R + D
M = total mining rewards
R = total referral rewards
D = total developer rewards
M = ? f(P) dx where f is a logarithmically declining function
P = Population number (e.g., 1st person to join, 2nd person to join, etc.)
R = r * M
r = referral rate (50% total or 25% for both referrer and referee)
D = t * (M + R)
t = developer reward rate (25%)
Sir there is no option to withdraw money its just a waste of time.
Waste of time ? There’s no opportunity cost besides taking one second out of your day to click “ mine “
Bc it’s not yet phase 3 headass.
Pi Network is a cryptocurrency, started by Stanford Phd’s. You can download an app on your phone (iOS or Android), and it takes negligible battery power to run and mine. All you need is a phone number or throwaway facebook account to sign up.
Come join and get a piece of the pi: you can find more info at the minepi website.
It has no value right now but that could change if we get enough people using the product. It isn’t listed on any exchanges yet, so if you join now you will be early. There are over 100k users so far, unsure how many are active.
Because it’s still so early, you’ll need an invite code to join.
Thought it was sketch at first, but after reading the whitepaper it seems decent and not a scam so far. You can directly speak to the devs, as well as other uses with the app. For any interested, definitely give it a look. It’s like Electroneum but better.
Agree! ive been with it since May 2019. and the app is of ease to use. there’s even a chat channel for different language and good part is developers are there to talk and answer any questions and discussed.
“Not all who have it will understand its true potential until it;s no longer minable. by then it will be too late. opportunity exits for everyone, but it waits for absolutely no one” – @TheCryptoLegend
Pi network probably is a scam. The claim to let you coin mine from your phone, via the cloud. Which is ridiculous. They also claim to do this out of charity. And their site is totally anonymous. Stay away from Pi network!
Join up, nothing ventured, nothing gained…! Why doubt when it’s free and you know sweet fuck all about it? Let’s wait and see eh?
An app can’t articulate what it is going to achieve sounds lame and suspicious. Join up for what?
Then you have to visit their official website(FAQ/White paper/CoreTeam). and get to know more about the coreteam that developed Pi. it has crossed 550K+ engaged users since it began March 2019. onto track of becoming the widely used cryptocurrency in the world.
Don’t be naive, pi’s not scam, rather than really mining, rather more like air drops, to get it grown into something real!!!
Why? It does not cost one penny. Any scams I have ever seen ask for money. They ask for nothing. What harm can come of it?
I thin Pi Network will be defeat Bitcoin surely …
It all depends on the involvement of adopters. A large user base and use cases means an increase of value. If this project manages to solve the main problem of cryptocurrencies which is mainstream adoption I see it thriving and beating bitcoin easily in the future.
For those who claim there’s no danger in installing an app on your phone because it’s free… Well, you haven’t been using a smart phone for long, have you?
In that sense no app or phone is 100% secured. As long you have your phone updated to latest software and only install apps from App store (Apple) or Google play Store (Android), your risk of getting hacked is minimal. PI app is only available on Apple store or Google play Store and I don’t think Apple or Google will allow an app capable of stealing user information on their platforms.
THIS MUST BE IT! It’s very simple and fun to use. Seems legit. Works on your mobile phone and does not drain your battery. Download the mobile app to start earning today! Join the beta.
Are there any updates from PI? Is there still no actual money involved?